Kuro's Charm | Sekiro Shadows Die Twice Wiki

Thought I was pretty competent at this game -- not amazing, but good enough for single-digit deaths on a no-prosthetics no-arts run. But a base new game run without Charm and with Bell broke me. This is my admission of defeat: I couldn't beat the Owl rematch. It's my favorite fight in any game and I couldn't do it on ultra hard mode.

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Giving it away on base NG is truly painful. All of the debuffs plus no beads skills or attack power to start with. That being said, it's satisfying in a way only your first playthrough is otherwise. Suffering is what I desire

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I gave the Charm back, and suddenly bosses were spamming grabs, sweeps, all that stuff, and enemies got more aggressive. Probably recall bias, maybe confirmation bias, but I'm keeping the charm with me from now on

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I swear to God fighting isshin sword saint without the charm, it looked like he fought more aggressively, attacked more often, but maybe its cuz he has more posture so the fight was longer

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What a 'charm'ing little thing, I do wish that some enemies got an additional attack without the charm though, like small fry using perilous attacks if they don't already

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With kuro's charm the game feels too easy... Charmless FTW

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I had to take the charm back to beat owl (father) and I swear the penalty for spamming deflect is lower with the charm. I’m parrying almost everything with the charm after missing a ton of his basic combos with different timings without the charm. I’ll probably get ratiod like the other speculators but would be curious to see this tested somehow.

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Is there any difference in enemy aggression/movesets? For instance Lady butterly really liked to do a normal counter attack after she parries, now she is suddenly into doing a much more variable moveset it seems, although I havent played in 2 years or so. Likewise, the enemies in hirata estate are suddenly fond of doing a sand attack to disrupt me, something I haven't noticed them doing before at all. Might just be my memory failing but I really feel like this adds more than just the damage/hp/chip damage stats

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Do you still take chip dmg when under umbrella?

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Item que define se o jogador é ou não é bom jogando o Sekiro

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I unintentially just gave this back to Kuro on my first playthrough, believing that's what i was supposed to do :/

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If you’re good at the game and trying to go for all achievements then use this and never give it back, hesitation is defeat

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Any opinion on charmless demon bell run vs charmless run on just a regular new game? Never played charmless and I just started a new game without it, it’s brutal af, like playing the game for the first time.

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Is it worth it for the exp and sen? I have been using the demon bell when farming and it works good

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DO IT

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Miyazaki purposely avoids difficulty settings not only so players can experience the joy of overcoming hardship. But, it also provides a shared experience and builds community. Anyone who has played this game and reached key points can just mention that moment and all of the rest of us know exactly what that was like. Likewise, if you are stuck, advice from those of us who did overcome it has real value.

Ironically, Sekiro does have a hidden "easier" mode. If you die to many times, shinobi medicine occurs earlier than normal.

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Is charmless' effects stacking with each playthrough?
In the entry above it isn't mentioned what's it all about the MULTIPLE charm icons shown in the "load game" directory. The past playtroughs without charm have grey icons for each playthrough on the save file.

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First off, before all the goblins start yelling "git gud" from the rooftops, I'd like to say this is my first Fromsoftware game AND my first souls-like game. And what an incredible game this is. The combat is fun and ruthless, the world is beautiful and engaging, story's pretty good and the movement is quick and satisfying. That being said... Too hard. That is to say, it was too hard for me. I saw one comment where this guy talked about how he'll fight Foster Father without upgrades or healing just for fun and I was like "Whaaaaaaat????". I know there's a huge debate about easy modes and stuff, but what if they made an easy mode that locks out certain content? Like, you can't fight certain bosses or get certain endings? That way someone can still technically beat the game without getting their **** knocked off but if they want the full, true experience they can just boot up normal mode. Nobody complains when they have two, stackable options to make the game harder. I don't intend on playing on a harder difficulty because I barely made it through normal mode, and I'm a reasonably skilled casual player. What about the people who aren't as good at videogames, or don't have the time to "git gud"? It's all about accessibility. Personally I believe easy mode should be something that is in the settings menu which you'd have to turn on if you wanted it. That would encourage all players to do normal difficulty while providing a fail-safe should it be needed. Like, as a casual I play games for fun. But even when given the option for easy mode I'll almost always opt for normal. The challenge presented has to appear impossible to my Asperger's brain for me to switch to easy mode. Like Week 7 of Friday Night Funkin'. Now I heard something about outfits? THAT would be a cause to fight for.

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What there should be to complain about is the inability to cancel "additional hardships" anytime you want... i just finished my charmless+bell NG+7 and i'd like to return to normal diff to test out stuff in reflections of strength

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its a shame the new outfits don't carry over to normal new games like Kuro's charm

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The leap between charmless and base game is absolutely huge and I think that really a bell demon playthroughs is the best inbetween you can get so for those considering to do it on a new game try out bell demon first

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Kuro Charm = normal difficulty
No Kuro Charm = hard difficulty
No Kuro Charm + Demon Bell = nightmare difficulty

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The charm makes the game a lot easier for the noobs that think the game is harder with the charm is funny. Like the game even tells you the game will be harder without the charm and some people think the game is harder without

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For those that complain about Sekiro not having an easy mode, well ladies and gentlemen Kuro's Charm ng plus is an easy mode.

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People complain about Sekiro being weak but that's not true at all. Storywise he did beat the hell out of each opponent he faced. Yeas he had many shinobi tools at his disposal, but most enemies/bosses also had numbers/tools at their disposal, not to mention those divine cheat crap (like terror or lightning).

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Playing without it breaks the balance of some bosses. You begin to find ways to cheese the boss by utilizing your infinite stamina and not actually engaging with the game mechanics. When perfectly timed deflections become useless, hit and run becomes a viable strat.

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The best thing I like about it apart from general difficulty increase is that it will give game mechanics such as deflections, parry timings, dodge Iframes and most importantly prosthetic tools a whole new meaning. You are now supposed to utilise everything available in the arsenal. I myself came up with so many different prosthetic strats to deal with enemies/bosses.

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For those who say that the game was intented to play charmless, you are wrong.
Difficulty in videogames is complex. For a given videogame with a good combat system as well as a good storyline, if you play it on easy mode maybe you can enjoy the story but you gloss over the combat, repeating the same strategy or moves over and over without appreciating it and it tends to become repetitive ; if you play on a harder mode, maybe you do explore some more of the options the game gives to you and there is a sense of accomplishment in mastering the mechanics, but sometimes that extra difficulty is just too much and nonsensical, and as the guy below stated, harder doesn't mean funnier.
I like the aproach that is taken on souls games and some others, including Sekiro, by having a fixed difficuty. They are telling you from the beggining that that's the way the game is meant to be played, and also, that's the way they try to achieve balance between gameplay and storyline.
The combat in sekiro, in my opinion, is just beautiful, and it does feel good to become good at it, and the only way to do it is by dying over and over, but on your first playthrough the game doesn't allow you to play charmless and that is for a reason. It is not an easy game, despite of what some no life brats like to say, but there is a huge different after a couple hours. At first i use to feel overwhelmed by almost every mob, specially the fat dudes with hammers, but now i can defeat most bosses without taking damage by deflecting and that is gorgeous, but to get there i died A LOT. Here is when the demon bell and the charm come in, because at this point, when you have mastered the game the additional challenge is appropiate and pushes your limits even further, it does change your playstyle, maybe now you have to use the consumables you forgot about on your first playthrough, maybe you should try different prosthetics when facing some foes... is somewhat a new experience, but is easy to get frustrated. Some mobs can easily one shot you just for a silly mistake or a bad camera angle, or if you fight a new boss that you didn't face before, for example because you are doing a different ending (shura ending, in my case), the part of learning his moveset takes much more time since you die with almost every of his moves, and you have no clue of what he is capable of, so if you were to die on a normal game like 4 or 6 times or whatever until you do an actual attempt, on a charmless game with the demon bell maybe those 4 deaths become 20. On the other hand, piercing attacks don't make sense anymore because every single one is a piercing attack. You are clearly inferior compared to your enemies in terms of strength without any context, and that's why the game allows you to turn back to a normal game if you want by giving you back the charm, or dispelling the demon bell, because maybe it is too much and they can make the game not fun for you anymore, so, no, charmless is not the way the game was meant to be played at first.
If you like the challenge, you enjoy the combat system (and you have mastered it at least in part) and are a bit of a masochist, like me, maybe you should give it a go, not even on your second game, maybe on the third or fourth, but not before. Play as you like, the game is awesome so it's up to you (sorry for my english, i'm still learning).

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A harder mode doesn't always make the game more enjoyable

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After playing the game on charmless for so long, I feel like the game was originally designed to be played charmless. I feel like the base game doesnt incentivize deflecting perfectly enough. Sure your posture gets hit more but that doesnt mean much when you could just back off and regain it in 3 seconds.

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My observation on Kuro's charm(ng+4): not having it in the inventory definitely effects the enemy ai. Most noticeable were the story boss enemies. During Genichiro silver field or tower fight he would perform uncommon attacks frequently like that over head with perilous thrust. In Gyoubu phase2 he was entirely melee oriented and would never run away giving us chance to grapple confirmed after replaying it in reflection of strength. I also found ashina soldiers(hat) to be much offensive and even the nightjars who take big pauses between offense were attacking me non stop. I really want someone else to confirm my observation.

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So in lore point of view not having kuro's charm which would be the physical reality of Wolf, not only enemies are stronger but Wolf himself is very weak? Enemies don't take chip damage when blocking but wolf does. Sabimaru takes ages to poison enemies while wolf gets poisoned in seconds. Wolf's vitality and posture is so less he's also near physically challenged among all enemies and bosses. "Skilled shinobi"? My a**.

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So you're saying.
Easy difficulty=no bell demon, kuro's charm
Normal difficulty=bell demon
Hard(or nightmare) difficulty=bell demon, no kuro's charm.

GULPING INTENSIFIES

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So are you able to remove the charm at any point in the story, or do you absolutely have to do it at the beginning?

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Sekiro is my first FromSoftware game. Got my a•• kicked like never in a game ! Got the platinum trophy and the game really revealed itself after I gave the charm back ! Deflecting becomes so satisfying and not a L1 spam ! The game should be like that at first with increasing chip damages through the NG+s.

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I'm all for playing without the charm, cause I love the challenge. But it bothers me that without charm the umbrella prosthetic loses some of its utility. I just wish the umbrella wouldn't take chip damage, cause one of the cool things the umbrella does is to store "energy" and then release it (provided you have the skill). Without the charm that's hardly viable unfortunately

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Oh okay, I was already timing my blocks pretty much perfectly anyway, glad there's a bonus for the charm

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Without the charm and with demon bell on, the only boss giving me trouble right now is O'Rin. Its rediculous.

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"Suffering is what I desire"

Feels like attack pattern is different with charm debuff. Maybe thats what people are observing when mentioning new moves. Less common attacks now more common by happenstance, plus fight is longer.

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I feel like there is no real difference between posture damage with kuro's charm, the real challenege is indeed chip damage and even then you get use to it.

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From a lore-wise perspective, playing without Kuro's Charm or ringing Demon Bell (or together) it has sense only for Shura ending. Because in that case, Wolf betrays his lord so you're not interested in Kuro's protection.

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Difference between have or not have this item in inventory is significant. Without it, it was like my first playtrought, with it, I beat every boss on first attempt..

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If you have the charm it would show up in your key items list, right?

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The amount of elitist saying that you shouldn't play with Kuro's charm because it's too easy and you're a noob for doing so is staggeringly funny. Like guys, shut the ***** up and let people enjoy the game however they want.

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I forgot I had demon bell on. I played the whole. game with it*****.

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I swear that some bosses have new attacks when you're charmless

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its stated: among the game journalists, there will the chosen one capable of beating this game with kuro charm.

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They say you can recover the charm after the Sculptor’s gone but I don’t see the option, all I have is prosthetic upgrades. Am I missing something very obvious?.

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"Sekiro needs easy mode", fuk this, they already played easy mode. Just try combine Charmless + Demon Bell in second playthrough, make me like a noob though I cleared this game 4 times before.

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NG+3 without the charm makes Owl and Isshin literal killing machines. It's actually kinda sick though.

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Give it back to Kuro. I have a feeling that From intended this to be the actual difficulty. Your first playthrough is the tutorial.

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If you do the shura ending does it take away kuros charm in the next new game +?

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When you start out without the charm because you thought it was supposed to be given back to Kuro. FML

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I think this would be the default difficulty. The game is so easy without it because block is stupidly OP and you are not punished when you miss deflect. Sekiro is Dark Souls for plebs.

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Hi yes I've beaten Shura and severance ending bosses with this toggle on, ng+7, and ***** this difficulty switch. It's *****ing rom hack difficulty. Either it's punishingly impossible because you didn't bring enough resources, or it's easier than your first run because you figured out the one trick. The easy bosses become the hardest ones and the hard ones easy because the entire difficulty in this game's boss progression is balanced around guarding = easy mode and perilous attacks = hard mode and that kind of gets flipped on its head when you're suddenly punished for less than TAS perfect deflections and the massively generous input windows for perilous counters is suddenly more appealing.

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The chip damage when you guard seems to be 30% of an unguarded hit's damage. tested in NG against a gunman (who did 0 damage when deflecting, so there was no chip damage) and dogs in the ashina outskirts, with demon bell on, and kuro's charm given away (of course). against the gunner my calculation estimated about 31%, against the dogs it ended as 29.5%, so I think it's reasonable to say it's 30%.

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Does the chip damage apply to the umbrella too (when turtling and not spinning)?

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I kept Kuro's Charm but I'm still noticing an increase in difficulty and definitely and increase in EXP and sen form enemies. Does a NG+ come with an automatic difficulty spike, or did I glitch the game somehow to activate hard mode without giving the charm away?

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"The debuff doubles enemy vitality and posture". That doesn't seem right. I think there's a definite increase, but nowhere near that high (editor possibly had Demon Bell on as well?). Someone else in the comments reckons it's around a ~30% increase, which seems closer to what I've seen, but I've not really done any proper testing.

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"Not having the charm in your inventory leads to the following hardships according to my testing: - Enemies gain more Vitality and Posture (smth around 30%) - Enemies deal more damage (e.g. all grapple attacks from the chained ogre kill you instantly) - You receive around 20% more Sen - You receive around 15% faster Skill-point-gain - as already mentioned: Blocking physical attacks (basically missing the deflect) makes you take about half of the damage of the attack." Yep ! That is the truth : please update the page ! I'm running an NG game without the bell and i m sure of this part : "Enemies gain more Vitality and Posture (smth around 30%) - Enemies deal more damage (e.g. all grapple attacks from the chained ogre kill you instantly)" I agree that's something about 30 % more Vitality and Posture. I agree they deal more damage (lady butterfly is no more the weak woman she used to be, i had to learn the fight for the first time).

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Pretty sure the Mikiri deathblow thing is wrong. Successful Mikiri counters do not award guaranteed deathblows on non boss enemies. A deathblow opportunity after a Mikiri is caused by the Mikiri breaking an enemie's posture.

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Playing without it also increases posture damage received, decreases posture damage inflicted on enemies.

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Oh man....I think i gave him the charm just thinking it was a good idea...NOOOOOO...restart methinks

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This is so lame, i finished NG+2 without kuro's charm. I started ng+3 while drunk and forgot to give the charm to kuro. So now i'm stuck playing with the charm, which is WAY too easy once you finish without it. Please make it so that you can give it away any time. This playthrough is going to be boring as*****.

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"Sekiro needs an easy mode" How about ***** you, here are two stacking hard modes at the start of the game you pussy :D love it!!

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If you do a New Game with an existing complete game save, you can start New Game with Kuro's Charm.

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Can you get the charm back after sculptor leaves near the end of the game? I'd assume you can't (and by that point in the game you're already committed to the challenge) but kinda curious as to whether he leaves it at the temple or not.

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Updated some of the info (it's automatically acquired at the start of the game once unlocked; has nothing to do with the ornamental letter) and made the "giving it away makes the game harder" bit clearer at the start of the article. I think some of the stuff about it giving exp/sen benefits or doing anything other than adding chip damage to the game is wrong, but that shouldn't be too hard to test later.

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you son of a ***** be *****ing clear, IF YOU KEEP IT: ALL GOOD, IF YOU DO NOT KEEP IT: GAME HARDER

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Now this is the real hard mode

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It appears you get this item even if you start a completely new game; as long as you’ve already beaten the game before. At least I did. I wonder if it’s tied to achievements...

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Please, update this page: demon bell + charmless effects stack (on all ng cycles except for the last one). Proof:

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They DO stack:

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has anyone beat the game without the charm and demon bell? Does anything unique happen?

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The bell makes enemies harder to kill, it gives them more posture and possible health. Don't test on trash mobs, on mini-bosses and main bosses the difference in posture buildup from attacks is chalk and cheese with bell and without. The charm is about taking more damage, the demon bell is about making enemies tougher, not papers. So they do work at the same time. stacking is the wrong concept here since one affects enemy defense, the other affects enemy offense.

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People complain game too hard,but ng+ without this boy this is where the real game begins,no more brainless blocking,git gud or die.

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Hey guys. Just finished some testing with kuros charm and the bell demon. I only tested with Kuro's charm on and with Kuros charm on + bell demon on. My enemy of choice was the rooster/chicken enemy at Outskirts wall stairway. It has 2 airborne type attacks. One where the rooster pecks at you once with heavy damage, and another airborne attack where the rooster pecks at you multiple times taking a lot of damage over several pecks. My method: I would allow the rooster to do the airborne attack at me that pecks multiple times, but i would only take 1 hit and back off. I did this a few times with the charm + Bell demon and with the charm and without the bell demon . Keep in mind the screenshots below are all with the same attack, and only 1 hit from that attack (the multiple hit attack) Take 1 With Charm + bell demon : Take 2 With Charm + bell demon : Take 1 With Charm - No bell demon : Take 2 With Charm - No bell demon : I will do some more research, but what this tells us is that the the bell demon, has a very minor effect on additional damage taken when paired with kuros charm. This is just one enemy. It Would be nice if someone could do this with a different enemy but to make sure that the enemy only does 1 specific attack where the damage is captured.

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This DOES stack with the Demon Bell. That is to say, one of these debuffs doesn't take precedence, and if you don't have Kuro's Charm, you will still receive additional damage from the Demon Bell, contrary to what this page and its source says.

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Can confirm the charm is given regardless of the ending you chose in the previous NG cycle, including Shura as some sources I found mention you can't get it with shura

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I wonder how much harder the fast claw guy will be with this. Im using this debuff now and blocking takes a pretty decent chunk of health.

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This does not stack with the demon bell at least as far as the difficulty modifiers go. Source

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it makes sense if you use this debuff alongside with Demon's bell's difficulty buff, This way you can make NG+ as hard as when you start NG but with all skills unlocked and more % item discovery.

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I dont see the point of using this, I'd rather farm for an extra hour then deal with those debuffs.

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Hmm interesting. Make an already hard game even harder. Not sure if i want that debuff, because blocking has saved my ass quite a lot, but i am going to give it a try. I guess i will remove it if the game becomes too frustrating.

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Not having the charm in your inventory leads to the following hardships according to my testing: - Enemies gain more Vitality and Posture (smth around 30%) - Enemies deal more damage (e.g. all grapple attacks from the chained ogre kill you instantly) - You receive around 20% more Sen - You receive around 15% faster Skill-point-gain - as already mentioned: Blocking physical attacks (basically missing the deflect) makes you take about half of the damage of the attack.

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